News

16 July 2024

Beginnings of progressive deep minimal..?

By Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

By Swayzak (David Brown also known as Brun, and James Taylor)

By m50 (Chicago)

By Robin Judge

By Steb Sly

Shortcut links within the article

• Introduction and some background.
• What is progressive deep minimal? Some kind of definition.
• Collected email conversations.
• Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001 (m50).
• Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003 (m50).
• Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) m50 (m50).
• Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) Steb Sly (Steb Sly).
• Re: m50 + Metro Area @ Smartbar (m50).
• Re: Deep minimal progressive variation (m50).
• Re: 2 mixes (m50).
• Re: Theorem DEMF/Groovetech audio cleaning (m50).
• Re: Old days (James Taylor).
• Final genre terminology selection.

Introduction and some background

The article that follows, is a really special niche area. I have been researching it, tracking it, and trying to find out as much as I can since about 2001, since I got my 1st hit (heard it 1st) played by Swayzak on Groovetech.com Radio. In 2024, this area or strain of deep minimal music, is certainly even more niche, and has become even more niche than it was back around 2001. I do not really know where to find it, and it has all but vanished, although I do hear some modern deep minimal made, that is reminiscent of this rare, niche strain, lurking around deep minimal. I never hear a full mix dedicated to it now, or say after about 2006. However, recently I did hear a tune that reminded me of this area, that was Subspace by Dubatech in 2021.

There are some collected email some conversations below, and we try and dig-out what was going on back then. I am also quite lucky because I know (well can email) a lot of the people from the original 2000 era, and ask them questions and find out. (Sometimes they do get annoyed with me, because I am so persistent and I insist on knowing what was going on, but I think they understand… well I hope so [laugh, laugh!]). There are not many musicians and DJs who can even remember what was going on back then.

Progressive deep minimal, and this is the final genre name given to this type of deep minimal music by Thomas (2000 Underground Music) after about 12 years of hard research. This niche genre is more easily found played on underground mixes between say 1999–2003. After 2003, this niche genre seemed to fade out, got lost, and was not made anymore… But hopefully we can uncover some great stuff and find out more, from those in the know!

And to make a last point, I remember very specifically, the main place I heard it being played, was by Swayzak on Groovetech.com Radio between 2000–2003. I do not think they would mind me either, exploring and digging-up, what they were doing at that time, as I know they are not funny like that. So much time has gone by now, that in 2024, if it is not discussed, it becomes almost extinct (like a dinosaur). They may even be able to add some information at a later date or clarify things, but their Groovetech.com Radio mixes were my main and pretty much only source of hearing progressive deep minimal mixes, at the time, or even decades later. I still go back to them a few times every year, cherish them, even study them, and play them non-stop for about a week, until they go back in safekeeping.

This is a very very valuable article and exchange of information, you cannot get this information these days, and the information has become near lost and forgotten. I would say I started to find the music I loved from around the year 2000, around 2011. I contacted Brun (David) of Swayzak and sent him all their Swayzak Groovetech.com Radio sets that I had recorded onto MiniDisc. Brun uploaded 1, on the 28 October 2011, to Swayzak’s SoundCloud, and below the mix in the description area, he listed some tags of the musicians music within the mix, like Swayzak, BPitch, Basic Channel, Perlon, Villalobos, Kompakt, M_nus, and I soon found their names listed on Discogs due to the amazing internet, and my 12+ year journey began. Before this, I could not tell you who any of the tracks were by, and could not even point you in the right direction. I do not think I had used Discogs much before 2011! From here I kept listening, searching, researching and emailing musicians and DJs, until around the start of 2024, when I started to compile and sort this article out.

So it has been a long time coming, and I could not have really done it any sooner, it just happened naturally and also due to ageing. So super special… took about 14 years coming (and even I cannot believe it). Hopefully progressive deep minimal will see the light of day again once again.

What is progressive deep minimal? Some kind of definition

There was a strain of minimal or deep minimal, starting and appearing in about 1999, peaking in 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003, then seemed to disappear when we got to about 2004, being played that was different to what was coming out at this time, typically from labels like Kompakt, Source Records, and so on. It was less typically German, microhouse and clean, but more deep, groove-based, rough and international.

This strain of ‘progressive deep minimal’ music (whatever we want to call it?), is usually repetitive and has loads of soul, depth and warmth. This is where the joy is, to listen to this type of music ‘variate’ and ‘unfold’, it seems to progressively variate the sounds and compositions, that is highly stimulating and mesmerising.

Progressive deep minimal raises the question: how much does it take for music to be interesting and stimulating?, what is the minimum you need to create and achieve a highly interesting and stimulating grooving track?

This kind of music is hard to find nowadays, both the old and new stuff. An amazing era, highly satisfying and stimulating music that came and went too quick. Music for groovers and certainly worth more exploration!

Collected email conversations

Email: 28 June 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50 (Chicago)

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

I noticed the music of Jirku/Judge in 1 of your old 2000-era mixes… and I was amazed, I love this is the kind of music, but do not know where to find it these days, great stuff.

• Is https://m50.net/playlists/2005.09.05.html online or on SoundCloud anywhere?
• Is https://m50.net/playlists/2005.11.16.html online or on SoundCloud anywhere?
• Is https://m50.net/playlists/2005.09.02.html online or on SoundCloud anywhere?

m50 can you tell me more about how this kind of music started, this Canadian and German minimal thing (whatever it was)? I actually currently call it progressive variation music, it is quite repetitive but never boring, and has loads of soul. Who were you all inspired by at the time? I have also observed, that this kind of music was only played only by a small select few people, and was essentially only active for about 3 years between 2000–2003, and then seemed to fade away.

So in reference to your mix and what was going on between 1999–2003, where did this music start, how did this pared-down musical movement start? Do a few records get released, and then somehow a movement, genre or style begins? I know Monolake, Safety Scissors, Sutekh, Kit Clayton and Swayzak were laying musical foundations around 2000. Germany was a large centre and hub for this type of progressive variation music, around 2001.

Finally I would really like to get or listen, to old mixes between 1999–2003, from you or any other people mentioned above (and I know about the stuff on Beta Lounge). Do you know anyone who has early internet mixes from these musicians, around the year 2000 that have not been uploaded yet online?

For me Untitled 03 (from the Periods.Make.Sense. album) by Sutekh. Force Inc. Music Works, Germany 2000 is unreal, it defines this genre of music. Unfortunately the genre went missing and stopped being made, after about 2003. I just wish they would still make this stuff. Check this out:

Swayzak were big players and promoters of the stuff. Do you know also https://soundcloud.com/fatcircles? Swayzak, Konrad Black, Steb Sly and their 240 Volts label, really put out some good stuff out around 2001. I am fascinated by the 1999–2003 era.

Was there some kind of scene going on in Canada at that time? There does seem to be some kind of Germany versus Canada versus San Francisco versus Iceland thing?

Here are some good progressive variation music tracks, see my comment (2000 Underground Music) at the bottom of this webpage https://www.discogs.com/master/2566070-Swayzak-vs-Theorem-020100, for an extensively research list records, in this area.

Please tell me anything you can, I just want to know more and have been trying to find traces of this music, for at least the last 10 years. Having originally heard it 20 years ago, around 2001…

Thanks again.

Email: 19 July 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to Robin Judge

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

Okay. You are very talented, your music is amazing, I have enjoyed it enormously. Just because 20 years has passed, does not mean it is irrelevant or not valuable today :) I still love it. Dope!

Email: 22 July 2020 from Robin Judge to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

Hello just reading your emails now, and will get back to you shortly. Sorry for the delay, I have been busy.

Sincerely.

Email: 30 August 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to Robin Judge

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

Read the interview at https://madisonmusicreview.com/interview-with-robin-judge/ and really enjoyed it. I would certainly like to know more, please do write when you can. Yes there is a certain preciseness and seriousness in your music, that was mostly made around 1999–2003, but sadly disappeared soon after. Between 1999–2003 is my favourite period.

How do you make this stuff, like how to you get the sounds and then do the compositions? Do you have any advice? I trialled many DAWs [digital audio workstations] a few years back, and settled on Ableton, but then fell out with it, too illogical and too complex (well for me anyway), always grappling with it, and trying to find out how it works. I will probably buy Maschine MK3 when I have some spare cash. I understand that you can record in or get a sound, then split it across a MIDI (musical instrument digital interface) keyboard (digitally as well), then some how put the dots in the grid, to sequence it. However, it is certainly not as simple as that… I am not a fan of using audio loops, it is too constrained and not customisable enough. MIDI (musical instrument digital interface I prefer, but this is about as far as I have got. I am a total amateur, as you can tell.

Another thing that puzzles me, is that both of you have produced amazing music, especially under the alias of Judge/Jirku, and there is no easy way to buy it, it seems almost unavailable (like if it were available today), would only be available digitally probably from Bandcamp, I would suspect buying a 1st-hand original CD or vinyl, would be quite rare and hard to do. You make amazing music and the record label is defunct… and I am not sure this is good in terms of financial sales, or for a musician’s sustainability, do not get me wrong, you are not the only ones. In Swayzak’s case, they have made amazing music for many years, but cannot live off the sales… Brun (David) works in a bicycle shop… What is going on with the industry, and I do plan to make and release music at some point in my life. But this financial loss is not appealing… and turns me off making music. What, I work hard and try to make an amazing thing, and I get £0 for it, at my age, what?

Email: 30 August 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to Robin Judge

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

I forgot to mention check this mix out:

from James Taylor, Swayzak very unusual and highly talented. I really like the sounds within it, and wish maybe he could do a mix just exploring the sounds. The vocal content is unreal. This mix was a stand-out mix for me in 2020.

Mike Schommer has also started to releasing again, and:

from the 2000-era is just unreal. Goes beyond time, never fades and never gets old. 1st heard on Swayzak’s Groovetech.com Radio sets, unreal!

Email: 4 November 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to Robin Judge

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

Sorry to bother you again, yes please do write if you can.

I had some luck this week and found:

• Zuzana Grimm, La Boum de Luxe, 13 October 2000 https://www.mixesdb.com/w/2000-10-13_-_VA_-_La_Boum_De_Luxe
• Zuzana Grimm, La Boum de Luxe, 6 July 2001 https://www.mixesdb.com/w/2019-03-08_-_VA_-_La_Boum_De_Luxe

Wow Framework by Altitude. Blue Recordings, Canada 2000 is unreal, and so of that time, so Canadian (well out that way). I am trying to find out information on this music, from around 1999–2003 but it is near impossible in 2020.

I will make my journey into trying to make music, think I will wait until the Maschine MK4 is released. Will send you both a free vinyl, but that could be in another 10 years time, I have no music skills and have to start from scratch.

Email: 24 November 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

Regarding:

The record playing at 55 minutes and 36 seconds is Jaeger by Hannes Teichmann. Festplatten, Germany 2001. What happened to this music after 2003?, no one plays it anymore.

Email: 9 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to Robin Judge

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

Do you have any vinyl available to buy of your music, on Bandcamp?

Email: 14 December 2020 from Robin Judge to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

Thanks Thomas! That is my very very 1st album! before I had any idea, that I would be doing this music making thing, for decades :)

I am sitting on decades worth of created music too! I should release them on my own label. Wow how time flies!

Here is an ambient track for you Thomas https://architextures.bandcamp.com/track/origami-time-box. Hope you like it!

Email: 14 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to Robin Judge

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

Great, thanks! I really liked and enjoyed https://soundcloud.com/robinjudge/j-squared (embedding the SoundCloud player into this webpage has been disabled by the user), so original, unique and from that time. A great find for me.

Email: 14 December 2020 from Robin Judge to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: ‘Progressive variation’ music around 2001

It is actually a 60 minute continuous music piece, but they took 3 minutes of it. I should release the entire thing! Cheers!

Email: 5 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

m50 what is the last tune playing on:

Email: 6 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

Ah I just love it, pure gold Promotion Of Vice (Alexander Kowalski Remix) by Dennis DeSantis. K2 O Records, Germany 2002. Thanks so much. Amazing and timeless!

Email: 6 December 2020 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

So good! Thanks for listening :D

I have an interview with Dennis in 1 of the old sessions. Will have to see if it is posted.

Email: 6 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

Send me the link :)

Email: 7 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

Jaeger by Hannes Teichmann. Festplatten, Germany 2001. Amazing, reminds me of my youth, what happened to this kind of music around 2001? The only people I know playing this music was Swayzak and Konrad Black, and the music may also have some Canadian roots and origins, like Akufen, Steb Sly, Matt Thibideau, Circlesquare (Jeremy Shaw) and Matthew Dear.

Email: 7 December 2020 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

So cool :D

Thanks for reminding me about this (and for the comment on the mix, it made it easier to find the exact the part that you had in mind). Yeah, the Jake Fairley, Ada, Areal and Festplatten sound, was so good. I remember going to see Ada, Metope and Jake Fairley all play, around that time. I think I may have played with some of them too, but I cannot remember. Those were some lively dances back then…

Email: 7 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

The only way I can describe that kind of music, is to call it something like progressive variation or minimal progressive variation, Germany versus London versus San Francisco versus Canada versus Iceland, something like that? This kind of music was alive from about 2000–2003, then died-out shortly after that…

Email: 7 December 2020 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

Interesting! I would characterise it more as a kind of chunky Cologne, German minimal? Maybe that is not really fair, I do not know why I would think of it that way. But definitely Festplatten, Areal and Sender Records, were big hubs for that sort of thing. I feel like you could play it now, and it might be fresh again. Since I do not think the current clubbing generation, has probably heard much of it at all, or even know about it. Considering the 1990s house revival we are on now, maybe this return will be the next retro-hip trend?

Email: 8 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

Thomas: Yes interesting stuff, you are more technically correct, probably :) It is all very unclear, I have tried to contact people over the years, and I get next to nothing…

m50: I understand and am sorry to hear that. It can be easily lost in email inboxes, and it is my main mode of correspondence. Even I am often pretty bad about replying to emails at times (as you have probably already noticed).

Thomas: I honestly believe that between say 1995–1999, there must have been a few records made (Basic Channel spring to mind fairly quickly, because they were very early makers of minimal). Then from half way through 1999 to about 2003, was an era like no other. It was like there was an explosion, all sorts of people and groups around the world, hearing, then making and playing this stuff. The Force Inc. Music Works label springs to mind, but that was the German stuff, there are also many other strains from various countries around the world like Berlin, San Francisco, Iceland, London, and Canada. Yes I would love to hear more music made like that. The music certainly has not faded or is irrelevant today.

m50: Sure, there are always coming and going golden-ages, for different styles and sub-styles. Another artist and label that occurred to me, that you might enjoy, in that vein would be Johan Skugge on the Mitek and Onitor labels. More kind of chunky stuff. Also Sami Koivikko of course, though a bit on the smoother side.

Thomas: Just found this in the last hour, from searching for Festplatten stuff Rave Point. Lots of gold mixes and will listen to all of it over the coming weeks.

m50: Very cool!

Thomas: When I 1st started to listen to house and techno on Beta Lounge and Groovetech.com Radio around the year 2000, and the strange thing is, is the music I listened to between 2000 to about 2004, is the best stuff I have… But that is not the way the world works, things move on, things come and go, new fashions and eras, even technology (to some extent) all change what is going on. And then there is what people buy or want to buy, and what would people go to a club to listen to? It all changes from year-to-year. Then from about 2010, I would say we have had lots of remakes and inspirations, that all come from the 2000–2004 era. And dub techno, that really to me anyway, comes from the era after 2004 (well it became more popular then). I just cannot deny the quality and impact the 2000–2004 music still has today. I like the old stuff, and finding new old stuff. That really turns me on still, 20 years later (maybe I am an old relic?). What do you think?

Email: 8 December 2020 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

m50: Ah that is okay, I do not take it personally. I have much the same results myself, even being right in the thick of it. Actually a friend doing a feature on a rather major radio station, invited me on for a session, and I had to decline. Since on numerous occasions, I had people work with the station and they told me to get in touch. While getting no response at all, when directly contacting the club, the radio management, or anyone else. Just today, I reached out to a booker to try and connect with an artist, and got an auto-reply email. The agency will be on Christmas holiday already until February… Comes with the territory, I tell you ;)

Thomas: Yes for a few years now, I have thought about travelling to Portland in the United States, and spending some time there. It seems like a really nice place. I did have a quick look into plane ticket costs. I believe flying from Birmingham, United Kingdom to Portland, United States, I would have to fly to Frankfurt, Germany, then from Frankfurt to Vancouver, Canada, then from Vancouver to Portland, United States. I am not what you would call fluent in flying and travelling… It just seems too unobtainable at the moment, but maybe I could swing down to Chicago, United States, where you are. Maybe I could look to see, if there is a direct flight from the United Kingdom, if it exists. That would make things easier for me.

m50: I would imagine there is probably a direct flight from London, United Kingdom, to Chicago, United States. I do not know about Birmingham, United Kingdom in particular. Portland is a great town but it is not big. I am not surprised that there are some extra hops and problems involved. Personally, I am staying out of the air until the pandemic (Covid-19) cools down. Things are not going so well with that, in the United States. But outside of that, I would be happy to help you chart a course, as I might have had a bit more experience with travelling, it sounds like.

Email: 15 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

Do you happen to have Matt Mercer’s email address? I would like to CC (courtesy copy) him in, on a long email to you all, that is nearly ready.

Email: 15 December 2020 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

The most recent address I have for him is here [email address].

Email: 15 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

Sorry to bother you again, I am not in the know regarding audio quality or mastering, I uploaded this mix:

I recorded it many years ago from the internet, using a 4KBPS modem onto MiniDisc. It has always sounded crunchy. There is something wrong with it though, it has these pops and bass crunches. But I have no idea what to do and how to fix it. I know how to normalise?, if that is any good.

I have Adobe Audition and Audacity. Is there anything you can suggest that I can do, to get rid of them? You are welcome to download the MP3, and sort if you can. If it would not take too long, of course. Does it have something to do with DC offset? What do you advise?, as you can tell I am an idiot of sorts.

Email: 15 December 2020 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Old recent mixes from 2003

Try this? [Download link supplied.]

Email: 15 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) m50

Note

The PDF has been displayed below in HTML format.

Okay let’s begin.

My early days

Yes I started to listen to house and techno around the early days of the internet, around 2000. I came across website links on international graphic communication design and website design blogs, mainly to Groovetech.com Radio and Beta Lounge, there was also Napster doing the rounds at the time of course… Over time, I explored musicians, and I really liked what I was hearing, and it all started from there. I never looked back, or even got bored of this kind of music. I found out about Swayzak very early on in the printed Cre@te Online website design magazine in 2000, and just knowing them and seeing who they work with and what labels they publish music on. Has helped me, find loads to find good music over the last 20 years.

Swayzak on Groovetech.com Radio

Swayzak, and with Konrad Black sometimes, played some sets on Groovetech.com Radio between 2000–2003, and I was very lucky to be able to record them on to MiniDisc from the Groovetech.com Radio website. I have about 20 hours from them, that is the best stuff in my collection over the last 20 years. I recorded them from MiniDisc, back into Audacity and sent them to Brun (David Brown of Swayzak) in 2011. He put 1 up at:

and said he would upload them all, but some weeks later, decided that the audio bitrate quality was not good enough. The audio was recorded on to MiniDisc through a 4KBPS modem… The sound quality is surprisingly good for that technology and bandwidth, however, there are bandwidth lags and it is low-bitrate, but it does not bother me.

So on those sets, they played basically 2 strains of music:

1. Sort of German in typical feel, electro, house, techno, minimal. Labels like Playhouse, BPitch, people like Miss Kitten, Studio 1 (Wolfgang Voigt), Klaus Kotai, Rework, LoSoul, DeepChord.

2. More importantly they played what I would call progressive variation or what m50 has improved upon minimal progressive variation. Or what I may have improved upon even further deep minimal progressive variation. This music that seems a mix between Canada, Portland, San Francisco, Iceland, Germany and London, is very repetitive, rough and progressive. It gradually explores itself, dark at times but never ever boring (but always with so much soul). It progressively explores itself through subtle variations. And here are some sample tracks:

• 01 by Akufen. Oral, Canada 1999.
• 0101 (1996) by Concept 1. M_nus, Canada 1998.
• 020100 (Swayzak Mix) by Swayzak vs. Theorem. Swayzak Recordings, UK 2002.
• 12 November 18.20 Pm (Reduced) by Shapes & Forms. MP3.com, US [2001?].
• 17 & 4 (2) by Michael Mayer. Kompakt, Germany 1999.
• 23° by Dynamo. DIN, Germany 2000.
• All It Takes (Edit) by Pacou. Sonic Minds, US 2003.
• Architextures 1 by Akufen. Hautec, Canada 2000.
• B1 (Dub) by Salz. Salz, Germany 2001.
• Brond by Mikkel Metal. Echocord, Denmark 2003.
• Dedicated 2 All Believers Part 1 by Heiko Laux. Kanzleramt, Germany 1997.
• Deep Service by Multipliar. Trapez, Germany 2000.
• Different Tribes by Exos. Symbolism, UK 2002.
• Everytime by Soulphiction. Perlon, Germany 2000.
• Extra Vergine by Maus & Stolle. Klang Elektronik, Germany 1999.
• Framework by Altitude. Blue Recordings, Canada 2000.
• Frank Mueller Melodram by Ricardo Villalobos. Perlon, Germany 1999.
• Freedom Engine-01 by Mathew Jonson. Itiswhatitis Recordings, Canada 2002.
• G4 (B2) by Monoder. Statik Entertainment, Germany 2003.
• Giganten by Closer Musik. Kompakt, Germany 2002.
• Greyscale For Slow Building by Konrad Black. 240 Volts, UK 2000.
• Heavy Circles by Dean DeCosta. Plug Research, US 2001.
• JS-01 by JS-01 (James Zeiter). JS, UK 1997.
• Lava by Jirku/Judge. Onitor, Germany 2003.
• Lila 3 by Studio 1. Studio 1, Germany 1996.
• M-3 (dcv08) by Techniker/Delayvarience. DeepChord, US 2000.
• Nachschub (Michael Mayer Remix) by Wolfgang Voigt. Kompakt Extra, Germany 1999.
• (neo)Moronics Part III by Moron. Tektite Recordings, US 1999.
• Night Of The Living Deaf (Track 3) by Christian Morgenstern. Forte Records, Germany 1998.
• On And On by Aril Brikha. Transmat, US 1999.
• Phake And Phoney by Soulphiction. Perlon, Germany 2001.
• Phragmadia by Hexaquart. Force Tracks, Germany 2000.
• Reiteratingiteration by Kit Clayton. Cytrax, US 2000.
• Sci Fi by Nick Rapaccioli. Vertical Form, UK 1999.
• Slope by Jacek Sienkiewicz. Klang Elektronik, Germany 2002.
• Soundbarrier by Maus & Stolle. Klang Elektronik, Germany 1998.
• Summer (Nick Rapaccioli Remake) by Pub. Vertical Form, UK 2000.
• Sweet Sweet Morning (Swayzak Remix) by Martin Landsky. Poker Flat Recordings, Germany 2001.
• Taxi by Maus & Stolle. Klang Elektronik, Germany 1999.
• Tech Hikers by Project Remark. Plug Research, US 2001.
• Timebomb by John Tejada. 7th City, US 2001.
• Untitled (B1) by Primitive Urges Volume 1. Primitive, UK 1997.
• Untitled 03 by Sutekh. Force Inc. Music Works, Germany 2002.
• Untitled (M5 – A1) by Maurizio. Maurizio, Germany 1995.
• Untitled (Deconstructed by Sutekh) by Safety Scissors. Delay, US 2000.
• .Wavemail Project EP by Sutekh, Safety Scissors, Swayzak, Twerk. 240 Volts, Europe 2001.
• Western (Salz Remix) by Philippe Cam. Traum Schallplatten, Germany 2000.

As also seen on https://www.discogs.com/release/59796-Swayzak-vs-Theorem-020100.

Also when Brun uploaded the mix Swayzak, Set 3 of 3, Groovetech.com Radio, 2001 archive he put some tags on it, so Basic Channel, Ricardo Villalobos, and before he uploaded it, I always loved the sets, but I did not know what any of the music was, so by adding these tags, I was able to get a way into this music, and to find out who made it, and where it was coming from (for example, by using Discogs). I have spent maybe 10 years 2011–2021 retracing the music, and I have had many good finds, and many enjoyable hours. I like to think now that I am in the know, well a lot more than I was before 2011!

Progressive variation music

This kind of music progressive variation that I really love, was played only from around 2000–2003. Come 2004, it seemed to vanish, and was not really seen, or played anymore. The only places I hear it from about 2010 onwards, is when people upload old mixes. Ah yes, on Swayzak’s Groovetech.com Radio sets, they did occasional shout-outs through the microphone. In fact, Swayzak played also in conjunction a few times, with Konrad Black, who specifically did a shout-out to Circlesquare. Swayzak would play with Konrad Black at that time. Konrad Black did a shout out to Circlesquare in 1 mix, saying something like ‘send more money Canada’. I presume he was saying, send more good music from Canada? They also thanked a record shop in Canada, sorry I think maybe BSI Records in Portland, Oregon, United States. (I cannot locate the shot-out at the moment…)

The San Francisco gang

So we are not finished yet. I have not mentioned the San Francisco scene around 2001. Sutekh, Kit Clayton, Monolake, Safety Scissors, Twerk. These guys were definitely players in the system, although if I am being precise, their sound was probably more to the German scene (and this is no criticism at all but more of a precise statement).

Konrad Black

I actually manager to identify a track he played with Swayzak on Groovetech.com Radio Space Woman by Savas Pascalidis. International Deejay Gigolo Records, Germany 2001. 20 years later I find the holy grail, 20 years! The sound of the track. It was played at the highest vinyl speed. Ah man, when you hear it in their set, it is like music I have never heard since, you just do not believe it.

I found out about William Selman’s (Warmdesk’s) music recently. Check out these 2 mixes:

William Selman’s music is certainly very good compositionally, 2nd to none, it is very accomplished. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it is a level up or equal to the German (Force Inc. Music Works, Clicks & Cuts, Mille Plateaux) and Swedish stuff (Ena by Vita, Mitek label, Andreas Tilliander) music made at that time, and that is saying something! Well what I mean, is it is very impressive. I read many years ago, something like this ‘the whole is greater than the sum of the parts’. What I mean by this, is that with your music, the end whole (sum of the parts) result, is much larger than the sum of individual components. Yes it is just about as close as I have ever heard to this Canadian minimal progressive variation music Swayzak played on Groovetech.com Radio, some 20 years ago. But is also stranger and more curious, because it is a mix between German and Swedish stuff. And this Canadian-tinged progressive variation music (not overly trying to define the music and genre, but I am just trying to understand it myself).

Anyway, really enjoy your old 2000-era mixes and I am shocked. It is definitely as close to Swayzak’s stuff on Groovetech.com Radio, as I have ever heard. In fact, it seems like some sort of extension or strain of it, so I am really over the moon. It is really very difficult to find this kind of music today, because as of 2004, it vanished (but why?).

Music quality from 2008 onwards

I remember, I was listening to a London tech house mix in 2008 and I noticed that something was not right with the new music, he was playing. From about 2008–2011, there was this horrible rush of music, that can only be described as flat, fragmented and less-is-less minimal audio. It was really flat (no depth) and this was the 1st time I thought, you know what, something is not right with this new music, people are making sounds now, not musical compositions. I my opinion, house and techno went downhill quite a bit from 2008 onwards, and I must say, I am not sure it has recovered. This was not the actual mix previously referred to, but something I remember listening to at the same time, that was a challenge in terms of music quality and enjoyment (I am not picking on him specifically, but was just a mix I remembered, from that specific musical period):

Do not get me wrong Colin Dale is a great musician and DJ, no doubt, but the music being bought and played then, was different it changed, I hear this in many other DJ mixes at that time. My friend says it could have something to do with fashion, or maybe technology. It is certainly clear to me, that before 2008, if you listen to a mix for an hour, there will be barely any bad tracks, but come 2008+, most of the sets have bad tracks in them. Anyway, maybe I am some kind of relic or do not know what I am talking about.

What can I advise?

I have always felt though that Swayzak should have maybe tried to partner with larger and better labels… I know it is not easy or clear-cut, but the advantage of working with a good larger label, is that they have a PR [public relations]/marketing team, and get more traffic and interest… I know with some self-publishing I have done. But we are not talking about commercial music, we are talking about the underground… so I know this no easy thing. But, do you get what I am trying to say? It applies to everyone else, of course. If you go with a larger good label, they have 5+ person team there, to do what is needed. Just putting in on your website, SoundCloud or Spotify, is probably not going do what is needed (nobody sees it) or get the job done.

Do you know Steve O’Sullivan of Mosaic Records. He is quite active in supporting and rereleasing old music. See also DBH Music, I am not really in the know, but maybe this helps?

Music law

About a year or 2 ago, I downloaded and tried some musical DAWs [digital audio workstations]. I was going to go with Ableton, but it is not logical, it is 1 step forward, and 2 steps back for me. Too hard to make progress with. I quite like the look of Maschine, but will wait until they release MK4 (not keen on old kit). I do feel like I have something to contribute to music, but it is going to take me a long time to output something (I have no music-making skills).

Another thing that puzzles me, because I may try and release and make some music, is the shortcomings of the music law. No one buys music anymore, they just listen to it on YouTube, or on Spotify for 1p a stream, or rip it… pretty sad, but the law or many people do not care. I honestly believe things need to change. 1 of the things I thought, is if musicians do not allow in any form, their full track to be able to listen to on the internet, and only allow say a 20-second clip. This way, if no one can listen to the full track on the internet, they have to buy it. With streaming, maybe the musician says that you can only stream my music, if you pay a fee, then at least some money is coming back around. Things could get much better! But the public does not need to. They just click play, or record it into Audacity… and what does the law do, nothing.

Portland, United States?

Can I ask?, what led to you making such music, where did it come from, what was going on at the time, what were your inspirations (help me get an idea of what was going on at the time?). I would have thought, that you do not decide 1 day out of thin air, to make such music. It does not just come from nowhere... What was going on in the clubs in Portland, North America, or Canada at the time?

What is it like in Portland, it seems like a very nice city. Can you recommend any books or documentaries, about life in Portland?

I cannot thank you enough, if you release any more stuff, contact me and I will check it out.

Email: 20 December 2020 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) m50

Interesting document. That makes more sense, of the sound you are looking for deep minimal progressive variation.

As I have already mentioned before, I do not think that I have ever heard of progressive variation outside of our email conversations…

I also think that Sami Koivikko might be to your taste:

I understand your frustration when you get no email reply from musicians. But when you say that you cannot find out anything from them. What is it exactly that you are trying to discover, from that conversation?

When you hint at music quality and originality around 2009, starting to decrease. I think that there are some sound-design trends, that are attached to a given musical period, but then pass. They can be referenced after that, but they are, as they say, dated references. I do not know, that is necessarily the case, with the kind of records you are excited about, but I do think that you have the good fortune of being excited, about a period in that music, where there was a lot of output by a lot of people. So there is sure to be a lot of music during the 1999–2004 period, for you to still continue to discover anew, for years to come.

It is my own personal feeling, that musical genres are basically social descriptions and post-hoc [after this or after the event] analysis of sounds. At any given time, there are sounds that develop or are en vogue [in fashion], and that will reflect in the sounds of that time, but you are talking about a lot of separate and loosely interconnected things happening, in techno around that time. I do not think that there is any unified story or secret, to what happened.

I am sure that you must already be familiar, but I do always think that Ishkur is a good jumping-off point, for a contextualising of the different currents in electronic dance music. He seems to have an incarnation of his website here https://music.ishkur.com.

I am not sure that I have much to add to your discussion and conversations, about how music is released. This is a complicated topic suffice [be enough or adequate] to say, that it is not always up to the musician whether they are signed, promoted, or released by a bigger higher-profile outlet.

Thanks for taking the time to put all of your thoughts and observations into such an organised form. It certainly helped me to understand your perspective on these things. Maybe my little bits of feedback help, I do not know?

Happy hunting.

Email: 20 December 2020 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) m50

Thomas: Interesting. Yes I would like to hear your thoughts about what it missed.

Do you have the URL for the article? I do not know if you heard back from him yet on this, but here is the summary https://www.thewire.co.uk/audio/tracks/stream-a-midwest-idm-playlist.

Thomas: It is interesting how music and strains of music, can basically travel anywhere, increased by internet communication. As soon as it goes on the internet, it can basically be anywhere in the world, and due to mobile devices, it can be taken and listened to anywhere. On the underground, the metro, driving in a car, in the mountains, totally amazing.

Thomas: I hope what I wrote, was of some interest, it helped me anyway to form ideas and work through the little bits of information over the last 20 years.

m50: I will go through your PDF next ;)

Thomas: 1 of the main questions I have, is where did the 1999–2003 era come from.

m50: This is maybe an interesting question, but super broad, right?

Thomas: I am only guessing and speculating, maybe a few records get produced, like say between 1990–1998, more people start producing this type of new music or approach and hearing it, and then things gain traction from there… I suppose we cannot overlook technology. Around 2000 the internet was growing, and more and more people were getting PCs and laptops… people would even make software, and so on. Last night, I was putting some tracklistings onto an old 1999 mix, and there was a Rhythm & Sound track, I noticed Maurizio released some very early minimal stuff, like M4.5 by Maurizio. Maurizio, Germany 1995. There is something in this music that says to me, this is some kind of start (the source of the River Nile). I am no expert, I just go on what I know, that is probably not correct and faulty. Maybe a few records like that get produced, people hear them, and then they make more stuff, and then it grows. I know Basic Channel are an easy and common go to, and quite well-known, but I do not know much else (I am probably ignorant or lacking knowledge).

Thomas: Then we get to 1999 and 2000, and the explosion of this kind of music is through the roof. For me looking back now, it is the foundations. Anyway, I do not really like defining things, and for music I feel it is not really that great, good or important and helpful. But I would like to know how it gained momentum, where it came from, and some of its roots. Force Inc. Music Works and Mille Plateaux labels, certainly published a lot of material in that era, it goes out there, gets published and off it goes, it grows, it communicates and multiplies. Previously I was referring to minimal techno and German stuff. As for the Canadian, Portland, West Coast stuff, that actually might not be literally a true statement. But I am fairly sure it was some kind of mix, between this and Germany, London, Iceland, and so on. I really do not know how it started, there were of course, players of this style of music (as previously mentioned). There is something I am now thinking and have realised, and this is who can tell me more, and who are the sources, the originators. So Swayzak, Konrad Black, the people who made the music. But I have found that getting this information by sending emails, does not go well, and does not always work out. What might be the next step?, maybe meeting them in person, and doing something like an interview… But that takes time and travelling. So come about 2004, I really do feel these strains of music started to fade out… The music is hard to find from 2010 onwards. I have seen dub techno from about 2010+, increase in the amount made, but this is a different thing to German techno or minimal. There was a guy called Steb Sly, who released some stuff on the 240 Volts label. He was another person connected to Swayzak and Konrad Black around 2001, and I got a reply from him a while back.

m50: As I have said elsewhere, I think that there are trends that rise and fall, but the styles of music are often quite persistent and active under the surface, independently from those trends. I am not 100% clear on the style of music that you are focusing on here, but from the links that you sent, it seems like it ranges from deep dub techno, to a kind of proto [original, primitive, 1st, earliest] minimal, to very much soulful deep house. I think that aspects of these styles, predated and succeeded the 1999–2003 period, that you have in mind.

m50: In addition to Groovetech.com Radio, you might also do well, to investigate the lineups and progression of the Mutek festival, around that time. I think that they will probably reflect, the state of the sound you are interested in. And might chart its development in a way interesting to you.

m50: Hope that helps, thanks for your thoughts!

Email: 28 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) m50

Thomas: Yes do let me know about what I wrote, it has certainly helped me work through information over the years. I find out more and more, week-by-week, year-by-year. I suspect it is high in inaccuracy, but you have to start somewhere…

m50: This is maybe an interesting question, but super broad, right?

Thomas: Yes what I say is mainly speculation. It seems to me anyway, that there were a few records of this type, like in the minimal style, and then it exploded around 1999. I am not super educated on the history of techno and house, but from my searches over the years, Basic Channel seemed to release very early minimal, a new kind of sound. Their records started being released maybe as far back as before 1995… But do not rely on my statement. I was not a DJ at the time, and have never really been involved in a music scene… I am sort of like an outsider.

Thomas: Yes big fan of Mutek festival and DEMF (Detroit Electronic Music Festival) from around the 2000-era. Yes this is what I am trying to understand and get at, as soon as we hit like 1999 or 2000, this whole scene or scenes, becomes a movement, or era, or thing. The shear uptake and new scene of minimal electronic music, is what, a 1st. Not seen before, or rivalled 20 years later in 2020… And there is always technology, so the internet and early PCs and laptops, that undoubtedly lead to more accessibility and uptake of these things, that in turn influenced and affected the music.

Email: 28 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) m50

m50: As I think I have mentioned before, I do not think that I have ever heard of progressive variation outside of our conversations.

Thomas: Yes you are right, it is a terminology used by me. It is the only way I can describe these strains of deep minimal and deep techno. I think deep minimal progressive variation or anything like this, is on the money terminology, although certainly not a concrete understood term. We also have microhouse that is another strain, but not really the kind of music Swayzak played on Groovetech.com Radio, who were basically very early players and promoters of this music, whatever the hell we call it! Microhouse once again seemed to come and go really quick, it faded out too quickly, and I do not know why. Andreas Tilliander released his new microhouse album under his old alias, this year Triptyk by Minimalistic Sweden. Repeatle, Sweden 2020.. Maybe a rebirth or revival will come… or maybe not. There is also another super-good musician called Johan Skugge, check him out, although it seems he no longer makes music. Ah yes, just seen your link to Volume by Johan Skugge. Mitek, Sweden 2004. Yes he makes interesting stuff, it was a great era. I think Ena by Vita. Force Inc. Music Works, Germany 2001 is really a landmark work, although as I found out recently, William Selman (also known as Warmdesk) album Guero Variations by Warmdesk. Deluxe, US 2003, would give any music made in that era, a run for their money. Although, personally the album certainly went under the radar… to me anyway. Microhouse was a great era, and I have forgotten about it slightly… I look often and listen to a lot of old music from the 2000-era, and I very rarely ever hear old microhouse mixes. I check out mainly house and techno, and hardly ever find old specifically microhouse music or mixes. It is just not available or played, and even more so since about 2005 onwards. I need to make some time, to look back at the old microhouse people.

Thomas: Regarding https://www.thewire.co.uk/audio/tracks/stream-a-midwest-idm-playlist yes listened to the tracks, I probably should not comment on them too much, as I do not know enough. However tracks like Doormouse ‘Face In The Gutter’, Signaldrift ‘Yellow Leaves’ and Detalles ‘Split’ certainly echo early foundations. So there are probably echoes of the previous tracks in work from people like Monolake, Jan Jelinek, or Sutekh’s Context label. I probably should not say anymore, because I have very little context as to how and when these tracks were made. But my best idea, is a few of these tracks get released like early or mid-1990s, and then people think a bit, and make more of this type of music. In fact, maybe a better analysis is with artistic painting styles, so abstract art, cubism, impressionism, and so on. In fact, these new musical strains like deep minimal, deep minimal progressive variation, microhouse and dub techno, they become sort of like musical systems, like a new language system, like systems to communicate and experiment in. Albeit with interesting constraints, or slight rules and parameters, within the different musical style systems.

Thomas: Thanks for the link to Sami Koivikko, checking it out now.

m50: I understand your frustration with reaching out to Konrad Black, but when you say that you cannot find out anything from him, what exactly are you trying to discover from that conversation and emails?

Thomas: Thanks, you have really done well to pinpoint what I am trying to find out. He will be able to tell me what was going on at the time, what influences, parties and new waves were going on, in this very niche area of underground electronic music. Also, he started to make music and DJ mixes from about 2001 onwards, but I cannot find any of his mixes from before about 2006… and this is what I would love to hear! If I could listen to his DJ mixes before 2006 to say 2001, I would be able to maybe trace how things moved… I know he also had something to do with Turbo Records in Canada, and the M_nus label. Again it is about trying to uncover these connections, bits of information, records and tracklists from this era, that would help a lot.

Thomas: There is something even more fine-cut and nuanced, and that is Konrad Black and Swayzak around about 2001 and 2002, and especially on Groovetech.com Radio. They were playing this kind of musical mix between German minimal, deep minimal, electro, electro clash and then this Canadian, North American and German, deep minimal progressive variation. It is this mix of music and genres, that is especially rare, there are quite a lot of the German minimal mixes available to listen to, but as far as the Canadian or North American deep minimal progressive variation goes, there are just basically individual tracks and a few select labels. Maybe also early Mutek festival mixes, from around the year 2000 are good references and study material as well. It is this mix, between the 2 strains and musical genres at this time, that is most interesting and very hard to find or listen to now… That is what I heard Swayzak and Konrad Black play on Groovetech.com Radio around 2001.

Thomas: Thanks checking out https://music.ishkur.com now.

m50: When you hint at music quality and originality around 2009 starting to decrease. I think that there are some sound-design trends, that are attached to a given musical period, but then pass. They can be referenced after that, but they are, as they say dated references. I do not know that is necessarily the case, with the kind of records you are excited about. But I do think that you have the good fortune of being excited about a period in that music, where there was a lot of output by a lot of people. So there is sure to be a lot of music during the 1999–2004 period, for you to still continue to discover anew, for years to come.

Thomas: Yes probably highly subjective and personal. Actually just writing and responding to your analogy, it has helped me understand and realise, that from about 2009 onwards, there was certainly clear fading out of past scenes and musical movements… although maybe I am a relic and out of touch?

m50: I am not sure that I have much to add to your discussion about how music is released. This is a complicated topic, suffice to say, that it is not always up to the musician if they are signed, promoted or released by a bigger and higher-profile outlet.

Thomas: Yes very right, very complicated. I was speaking from an ‘ideal uninformed utopia’ :)

m50: Thanks for taking the time to put all of your thoughts and observations into such an organised form. It certainly helped me to understand your perspective on these things. Maybe my little bits of feedback help, I do not know…

Thomas: Yes big help and actually writing this, leads me to a question: how do people or mainstream people, find out about this kind of music. What is their way in… it is all very niche.

SoundCloud message between Thomas (2000 Underground Music) and Steb Sly

SoundCloud message: 20 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to Steb Sly

Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) Steb Sly

I noticed you through the 240 Volts record label, and I have a question, maybe you can help me with, when you have time? I really like the deep, rough, progressive minimal music played by Swayzak, and a few others, around 1998–2003. I love:

Can you suggest any other DJ sets or mixes available on the web, from around that time? Can I also ask, was there some kind of mini-movement around 1998–2003, from Canada, playing this type of music. Who were the main figures and DJs? I had a few bad years listening around 2010, a lot of what I come across sounded thin and too minimal (less-is-less), a bit flat and uncreative. The music seems to suffer from overuse of the high hat (hit hat disease). But I really like the old stuff. Check my likes on SoundCloud, you might find some music you like and from the old days.

All the best from the United Kingdom.

Do you know about this https://www.youtube.com/user/tekDragon87 Groovetech.com Radio archive by someone called tekDragon, who has made available 108 Groovetech.com Radio sets. There is a really interesting conversation here in the comments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPCg2a_1h90 by tekDragon and Chris Hampartsoumian (an employee at Groovetech.com Radio) back in the day.

SoundCloud message: 20 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to Steb Sly

Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) Steb Sly

Hello Steb Sly, Thomas here, thanks for the information you sent through last time, quite helpful actually and informative. Can you send me your email address, I would like to write a long email to you, regarding music from 1998–2003.

SoundCloud message: 22 December 2020 from Steb Sly to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) Steb Sly

Hi there, [EMAIL ADDRESS] cheers!

SoundCloud message: 23 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to Steb Sly

Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) Steb Sly

Thanks big help. I am trying to gradually retrace this strain of music, from around 2000. I am trying to get an idea of the scene, thanks for the names as well. Thanks again, I check your stuff on SoundCloud and Mixcloud, interesting!

Okay emailing you now.

SoundCloud message: 27 December 2020 from Steb Sly to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Music between 1999–2003 (PDF) Steb Sly

Hmm, I am not sure about any sort of mini-movement in Canada. I just know that the Swayzak guys really liked Vancouver and Seattle in the late 1990s. So I met them, just because they liked the sound coming from the West coast back then. Most of my Vancouver friends moved to Berlin, so their sound became closer to the Berlin sound. The artists from that era, that I associated with were Konrad Black, Circlesquare, The Mole, Chris Hreno, Mathew Jonson, Nathan Jonson, Mike Shannon, Shawn Ward (now FM Attack, very 1980s sound). The West coast sound was a result of everyone smoking a lot of weed in the day, then stimulants at night, to keep the party going. It was a very fun era. I will have to do some more thinking… Oh, Itiswhatitis Recordings is a decent label to look into. It is Mathew Jonson’s label that was started in the late 1990s.

Cheers!

Email: 15 January 2021 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: m50 + Metro Area @ Smartbar

There is actually quite a lot of music coming out these days, in the classic house template. I think you will find yourself in good company :D

Email: 15 January 2021 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: m50 + Metro Area @ Smartbar

Yes identified the track Moonwalk by Funky People. Funky People, US 1995 on:

at 4 hours and 48 minutes. Classic house, they do not play this stuff anymore… Oh the soul!

Email: 12 February 2021 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: m50 + Metro Area @ Smartbar

Hello sorry to bother you again. Well I feel nearly home (in regards to peace of mind) now after 20 years, it has been a long journey, but I cannot thank you enough.

Some recent mixes I have found (that are very rare and cannot be bought, unless it comes out of the archives) that have been recently made available are:

• Safety Scissors, Live Session, dublab.com, 10 July 2000 https://www.dublab.com/archive/safety-scissors-live-session-07-10-00.
• Plug Research DAT archives https://www.dublab.com/search/from-the-vaults?type=broadcasts.
• Matthew Dear, Live Mix, dublab.com, 19 July 2002 https://www.dublab.com/archive/from-the-vaults-matthew-dear-live-dublab-mix-07-19-02.
• Swayzak, Live Set, dublab.com, 24 June 2000 https://www.dublab.com/archive/swayzak-live-set-06-24-00.
• Pole, Live at El Rey, dublab.com, 12 October 2000 https://www.dublab.com/archive/pole-live-at-el-rey-10-12-00.

I found this last night also:

The Nachschub by Wolfgang Voigt. Auftrieb, Germany 1997 record and strain of deep minimal, is what Swayzak played on Groovetech.com Radio 20 years ago, for 3 hours or more at a time. I have no way to describe it (well I have tried in this article). To call it sort of music, is an insult. It becomes more than music… but what can we call it? This strain of music that myself (Thomas, 2000 Underground Music) and m50 finally termed in 2020 could be deep minimal progressive variation. It was very rare and a very certain approach and ideology to making music. (I do not want to call it a fashion, but it was something like that, like a movement or concept, but only for only a few years sadly!) Alive and active around 1999–2003, but played only by a handful (12) DJs, maybe less. Then come 2004, it was never to be played again… and was gone. It was a movement and clash between Canada, Germany, San Francisco, maybe Iceland and London.

Thanks guys, you have helped me work through the little information I have. Everything I have mentioned in previous emails, is sort of true, valid and correct. But it is certainly not clear, even to me now. I have to speak with those people now, or meet them face-to-face. It is the only way I will know more and to get accurate information. The Matthew Dear mix above from dublab, is very close to what Konrad Black was playing around that time as well with Swayzak on Groovetech.com Radio. But I have no idea what the music is or what genre it was… Or who made it, or where it came from. I found out last week that Matthew Dear toured with Swayzak in 2003. That makes perfect sense now, listening to his mix above. See this as well:

Thanks again.

Email: 12 February 2021 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Deep minimal progressive variation

Cool, glad that is going well for you!

Email: 3 May 2021 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Deep minimal progressive variation

Wow… give me a week, to listen to them:

Finding too much good music around at the moment, also:

• DNA Lounge Live: presents Melon (3 August 2002) Uriel & Alexis (Bounce, Mexico City), and Dano & JZ (Red Melon) https://archive.org/details/DNALOUNGE-2002-08-03.
• DNA Lounge Live: presents Melon (2 November 2002), Jon Terry (Theremin, London UK), Dano (Red Melon), and JZ (Red Melon) https://archive.org/details/DNALOUNGE-2002-11-02.
• DNA Lounge Live: Wicked (15 March 2002), Doc Martin (Wax LA), Garth (Wicked), Jenö (Wicked), and Markie Mark (Wicked) https://archive.org/details/DNALOUNGE-2002-03-15.
• DNA Lounge archive, San Francisco https://archive.org/details/dnalounge.

Email: 3 May 2021 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: 2 mixes

Glad to hear that you are finding stuff that you enjoy :)

Hope you are having a nice springtime.

Email: 5 May 2021 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: 2 mixes

Grand! Good to hear that you enjoyed.

Best.

Email: 8 May 2021 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: 2 mixes

Getting to near the end of this mix:

Very interesting and very rich, full of, all sort of things. You cannot get this stuff anymore, it is priceless for me.

Rex The Dog’s music, interesting music. I found out a few years back that 1 of the tracks on https://betalounge.com/2004/04/08/beta-lounge-relaunch-party-1/ was a Rex The Dog track (the Picadub also known as Philip Sherburne mix, starting at 1 hour 49 minutes). This mix has stayed with me for many years, and 1st listened to it around 2005. I used to travel down to London when I was at university, and go to a few of the Kerfuffle parties, the London tech house scene run by Martyn Rochester and Liz Edwards:

It was difficult getting down (travelling) there for me, a lot of effort. And I ended up 1 night in the top of a pub in Camberwell, at a Kerfuffle party. Camberwell is frontline very hard… very in your face, very on the street, very rough, if you know what I mean. It was a nice group of people, but very hard-edged, it is tough in South London, maybe too tough for me… It is a stunning mix, very descriptive and drenched in the sound going on in London around 2004, and the tech house scene. In fact, I would say it is a defining mix in this era, sort of trippy, druggy, surreal, but with an edge and bite. I believe, and only found out some years ago, that Picadub is Philip Sherbourne!

Matthew Dear… again another very interesting guy. I only found out about Matthew Dear in the last 2 months, and after some research found out that he toured with Swayzak in 2003, not many people tour with Swayzak, and I think that says something. They were playing and pioneering this clash of electro, minimal progressive variation, German minimal, and San Francisco minimal. His mixes about 2002–2003 are very very good, and very close to what Swayzak played on their Groovetech.com Radio mixes. However when he gets to about 2005–2006:

The music changes, and it loses its quality. However, I very much like the last mix on the below. From about 4 hours 30 minutes, it really hots up. It is basically minimal progressive variation, the stuff I love. And once again, I know next to nothing about this music and era, and it so hard to find, but I try. Maybe I am a relic, but I am okay with that :) Ha!

Priceless, ‘go to m50 for the goods’ :)

I think that is Matthew Dear maybe starting at 4 hours and 30 minutes? I have noticed that most house and techno musical genres, seem to change every 5 years or so. It gets to a point where things change massively, and the old eras are lost and new ones come along. Of course, influenced by technology, changing times, drugs and fashions.

Email: 9 May 2021 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: 2 mixes

Thanks for the very thorough review. I am glad to hear that you enjoyed the set. Matthew Dear has been prolific over the years, both as a performer and as a recording artist. So I am sure there will be lots for you to dig into there.

Best.

Email: 9 May 2021 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: 2 mixes

A few months ago I came across https://archive.org/details/dnalounge (see especially the years 2001, 2002, 2003), amazing. I have finally made the connection between what Asad Rizvi and Rob Summerhayes where playing on Groovetech.com Radio around 2002, and the West coast (United States) wave, that was going on the. If you do not know, or know someone who does, it is near impossible to find out, and retrace what was going on (as I have found out!). Even when you do hear good music, say in a physical club or in a mix, there is no guarantee of knowing what the tracks are, or if there will even be a tracklist. It has been a 20-year journey for me. Asad Rizvi and Rob Summerhayes played essentially music that was a sort of London versus San Francisco versus West coast, and was some of the best stuff worldwide going on at that time, and is still a masterclass in quality and musical excellence.

I am stunned at the mixes on https://archive.org/details/dnalounge it really is the jackpot for me. Maybe hard work does pay off. I have listened to about 30 hours so far from the archive, and I have not heard anything even close, to a bad tune… You would have thought there would be a progression, maybe even an improvement over the West coast music, being made between 1999–2003. But around 2009, the feeling and mood of the music and eras gone before, seems to have faded, and things seems to have gone in a more minimal direction? Maybe times change, maybe I am a relic (or a has been)?

There is a great interview here:

And it goes quite a long way to explaining what was going on.

I cannot thank you enough guys, you have helped me get to where I need to be. Keep me posted guys.

Email: 13 May 2021 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: 2 mixes

Glad to hear that the hunt is going well for you!

I am actually broadcasting on Twitch right this minute, you should stop by.

Email: 21 August 2021 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Questions

Sure will do, checking it out now!

A few questions:

1. I will try and write something to go on https://www.discogs.com/Swayzak-vs-Theorem-020100/release/59796 in the comments.
2. Can you name any deep minimal progressive variation producers specifically from Portland (United States) area, around 2000–2003?

Email: 26 August 2021 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Questions

1. It is fine with me if you want to contribute to comments on Discogs, of course :)
2. Treibstoff, Substatic, Force Inc., Ware, Textone, Pokerflat, Thinner, Episode, Konvex | Konkav, Trapez, might all be good starting points.

Best.

Email: 20 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Theorem DEMF/Groovetech audio cleaning

I have another possible mix to sort out (well advise on how to make the audio quality slightly better if possible). Here [link] is an original recording from the Groovetech.com Radio website Theorem, DEMF 2000, 29 May 2000, from Groovetech.com Radio.wav. Groovetech.com Radio hosted the set and many of the other DEMF (Detroit Electronic Music Festival) 2000 sets on their website.

I contacted Theorem about a year ago and outlined my plans, but got no reply. Another bad and not full recording exists:

So I think and feel it is okay, I have a bit of sort of precious attachment to the mix, it is special to me, and that I found very early in my music listening career (so to speak). I probably heard it for the 1st time in either the year 2000 or 2001. So yes, quite a while back, well 20 years ago (seems like yesterday, and before you know it 5 years has passed, then 10, and then you think 20 years later, wow so many years have passed). This recording seems compressed to hell (very low bitrate), but how could it be a high bitrate being streamed through a 4KBPS modem, around 2000? And it does not have the introduction at the beginning by Carl Craig. The compression really affects the bass and nearly destroys it. The version I have is more fuller and sounds more weighty. But still it is a lowish bitrate, however, over the years, I have come to absolutely cherish the rough (and as some would say bad sound quality). In fact, I prefer it over a 320KBPS version. It just sounds right and has loads of character. I love how I can hear the sounds, not being able to be rendered through the bitrate and low internet bandwidth. It turns me on still 20 years later. There is nothing I would change about the audio capture of that mix, nothing. Well… maybe to listen to it loud, through some really great club speakers. That could be fun!

Issues with Theorem’s DEMF (Detroit Electronic Music Festival) 2000 mix that I need to try and sort out

There are a few bandwidth lag gaps and overall, how can we clean-up the audio recording to make it more acceptable. I do not have a problem with the audio quality myself, it gives it character, but I suspect other people will. So I leave it with you, maybe you can clean it and sort it, take your time, without making it something it is not, and adding a false element to it. I really know nothing about this kind of audio restoration.

Audio download availability history

The mix was available on the Groovetech.com Radio website around 2002, I clicked the .RAM file and it played back in Real Player software, through a 4KBPS modem. I recorded the audio playing from the computer through a 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio cable, onto a MiniDisc in LP4 (long play 4) format. Then about 2011, recorded it in using a 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio cable from the MiniDisc, to the computer (with no extra bass applied on the MiniDisc player), into Audacity. Then exported a .WAV for you.

What can we do with this and what are your thoughts? I can put it on my SoundCloud whenever you are ready, no rush. Do you know any audio restorers or cleaners, maybe I could speak with them?

I have also enabled you to upload on the link at the top, so you can upload the WAV or 320KBPS MP3. When your finished, it would be great to have both of these. I should not need any other formats.

Well hope this is okay? What a mix! I am going to try and find a live image from the performance at DEMF (Detroit Electronic Music Festival) 2000, to go with the audio.

Email: 20 December 2020 from Thomas (2000 Underground Music) to m50

Subject: Re: Theorem DEMF/Groovetech audio cleaning

Some notes below, just listened to it again:

Theorem, 29 May 2000, (Full/original recording) DEMF stage, Day 3, Groovetech.com Radio

• 27 seconds: lag probably leave in, authentic?
• 1 minute 10 seconds: not to worry (probably leave in, authentic?
• 4 minutes 38 seconds: what do you think that is? Probably leave in?
• 5 minutes 37 seconds: probably leave in?
• 7 minutes 16 seconds: probably leave in (sounds like a bee flying bye..?).
• 9 minutes 53 seconds: ? a bee probably leave in(authentic.
• 12 minutes 49 seconds: ? a bee probably leave in authentic.
• 15 minutes 27 seconds: ? a bee probably leave in authentic.
• 18 minutes 04 seconds: ? a bee probably leave in authentic.
• There is a little bit of reverb in the bottom of the sound, around 44 minutes 50 seconds, for quite a few minutes, maybe leave it or fix if you can?

I recorded from MiniDisc into the computer at 32000HZ, would 44100HZ have made any difference? Maybe too late now, it would take a lot of work to rerecord back in.

Yes pretty good audio quality, not bad really considering the low bitrate initially and 4KBPS modem bandwidth speed. Any improvement you can make, please do.

Will check my email tomorrow, thanks again, not my area of expertise.

Email: 21 December 2020 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Theorem DEMF/Groovetech audio cleaning

Thanks for taking the time to make such detailed notes. I will give the set a listen sometime soon.

Email: 21 December 2020 from m50 to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Theorem DEMF/Groovetech audio cleaning

Thomas: I have another possible mix to sort, if you wish and would like to, maybe for free? Here is an original recording from the Groovetech.com Radio website.

m50: I do not understand, are you suggesting ‘if you wish and would like to maybe for free?’. Do you mean the editing and remastering process? Or something else?

Thomas: Yes correct.

m50: Hmmm, I tried downloading this, but it does not seem to work for me. If you have a copy, maybe you would like to send it to me directly?

Thomas: Okay.

m50: Cool.

Thomas: I feel okay to make it available now, I contacted Theorem about a year ago and outlined my plans, but got no reply. Another bad and not full recording exists at https://www.mixcloud.com/artistsupport/theorem-live-pa-demf-detroit-29-05-2000/ so I think it is okay. This recording seems compressed to hell, and does not have the introduction by Carl Craig. The compression really affects the bass and it is near destroyed.

m50: Again, I do not understand what you are suggesting. You want me to host the mix on my SoundCloud webpage? Or you are asking if you can host it on yours? Or something else?

So what are the issues? Yes there are a few bandwidth lag gaps (if I remember, but have not listened to it recently). And overall how can we clean-up the audio recording, to make it more acceptable. I do not have a problem with the audio quality myself, it gives it character, but I suspect other people will. So I will leave it with you, maybe you can clean it and sort it, take your time, without making it something it is not, and adding a false element to it. I really know nothing about audio restoration?

m50: Okay! Yes will give it a listen, when I have a chance :D

Audio history

Thomas: The mix was available on the Groovetech.com Radio website around 2002, I clicked the .RAM file and it played back in Real Player software, through a 4KBPS modem. I recorded the audio playing from the computer through a 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio cable, onto a MiniDisc in LP4 (long play 4) format. Then about 2011, recorded it in using a 3.5mm to 3.5mm audio cable from the MiniDisc, to the computer (with no extra bass applied on the MiniDisc player), into Audacity. Then exported a .WAV for you.

Thomas: What can we do with this and what are your thoughts? I can put it on my SoundCloud whenever you are ready, no rush. Do you know any audio restorers or cleaners, maybe I could speak with them?

m50: I do not know of anyone who is doing this regularly. I know some mastering engineers, for sure who would probably have the skills to do a better restoration than what I will try to do. But they all do mastering professionally, and not for free, as far as I know…

Thomas: I have also enabled you to upload on the link at the top, so you can upload the WAV and 320 KBPS MP3 back to me, when your finished (would be great to have both of these, I should not need any other formats).

m50: I have tried this a couple times, and it gave me a bad gateway server error message. But now it seems to be working. Hopefully that is helpful to you.

Thomas: Well hope this is okay? What a mix! I am going to try and find a live image from the performance at DEMF (Detroit Electronic Music Festival) 2000, to go with the audio.

Cool :D

Email: 30 September 2020 from James Tyalor (Swayzak) to Thomas (2000 Underground Music)

Subject: Re: Old days

Thomas: Dear James

James: Hello Thomas

Thomas: I have changed my email from [email address] to [email address], they have been scanning my emails, and selling my data, as they all do.

Thomas: Thanks for your time, I really appreciate it. I have a few questions, maybe you could let me know anything about them, if you can?

James: I will try, however, I am possibly the worst person to give information, as I tend to move on quickly from old stuff. But will give it my best shot.

Thomas: I have been fascinated by the music you and David played on Groovetech.com Radio between 2000–2003. I know a few of the tracks, like there was a scene in San Francisco around 2001, so musicians like Sutekh, Kit Clayton, Monolake, Safety Scissors. I know you and David (Brun), also with Konrad Black a few times, and your 240 Volts label, really put out some good stuff. Can you tell me more about what was going at that time?

James: The San Francisco scene was very linked to Cycling ’74 and Max MSP software, that was also linked to the clicks & cuts eras, from around 2000, from Mille Plateaux in Germany. Check also Twerk, his stuff was great and very underrated.

Thomas: I think there was some kind of movement in Canada, but I know next to nothing about it. I know Germany was a powerhouse for vinyl production, but I not primarily interested in that, but more about the Canadian connection.

James: Canada seemed to open up, as there was the Mutek festival, and also the Force Inc. Music Works label had an office in Montreal, Canada. Folk like Akufen, Mike Shannon, The Mole, Soundshaper, DJ Maus, and DJ Mighty Kat.

At the same time, Frankfurt was really the place, they glued together United States deep stuff, with a European sensibility. We were lucky to fall into that scene.

Thomas: The only way I can describe the music from around that period, being made by all you guys is progressive variation, it is repetitive and progressive, but never boring, and it has so much soul. I think Sweet Sweet Morning (Swayzak Remix) by Martin Landsky. Poker Flat Recordings, Germany 2001, pretty much defines the music I am trying to find out more about. What was going at that time, to make such an in-time, in-era or in-the-moment track like that. It appears to me, that after 2003, this era of progressive variation music seemed to disappear. Why so?

James: Minimal came along, that was already a thing. But it became all about Ketamine, and boring Ableton live sets.

Thomas: Can you point me in the direction of any key musicians or labels, or any mixes available online, from this period? Where did this progressive variation music all start, where did it come from?

James: That is a tough 1. Check out Roger23 maybe, his mixes are always sublime and educational.

Thomas: Send me a reply if you can, would love to know more. Your Radio Coriolis 30 mix by James Taylor, 4 May 2020 was unreal, I enjoyed it too much and was really impressed.

James: Thanks for the compliment, take care!

Thomas: Thanks also for letting me know about Køemner (the new generation), really enjoyed his music!

Final genre terminology selection

From all the genre terminologies suggested:

• Deep minimal progressive variation.
• Deep minimal variation.
• Deep progressive minimal.
• Minimal progressive variation.
• Progressive deep minimal.
• Progressive minimal.
• Progressive variation.

Thomas (2000 Underground Music) in 2023, decided upon progressive deep minimal.

• Progressive deep minimal.

Progressive seems to be more true and better than variation (variating sound and compositions, that many other genres of music already do, it seems too loose). Progressive does however, have connections and connotations to progressive house. But I feel that progressive is really what it aims to do, or put another way, the music tries to progressively and carefully explore itself and its possibilities. It leads to a more accurate description of what is intended, within this niche and super rare genre around deep minimal.

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